Winchester's website has data for W231 and a 125 gr LRNFP, but not plated. In 38/357 they don't list 105 gr bullets, but the do list 90's and 125's. Easy enough to extrapolate for a 105 grain . 110gr JHP! The Charter Arms .44 models are potential CCWs, but are too light to properly handle the .44 spl. I'm still hunting for a DR load for my S&W M19-5. Honestly, plated bullets won't give you the level of accuracy needed for bullseye competition, even at 25 yards. Jacketed bullets are legal for DR, as long as they are 158 grain round nose or semi-wadcutter. Lucky me. (For those who would. Don't worry too much about lead/coated/plated/jacketed. Powered by Invision Community, 125 grain plated flat point in 38 Special. +P? Dont get me wrong: I think the Smith and Wesson Model 642 Airweight revolver is an outstanding self-defense (concealed carry) revolver and you wont feel/care about how snappy/unpleasant the recoil may be in a real self-defense event. Dec 18, 2011. Hornady also has load data for the 110-grain .357 XTP for the lower-pressure .38 Automatic. But this piece isnt about the gun, but rather the cartridge. 3.7gr WST with Zero 158 SWC did the job for me. Heck, 38s in a J frame arent fun- theres no way a 327 Mag isnt worse. If you, I took the vow not to buy any more AR-15s a couple of years ago. They are true classics, and I hope you get as much use out of them! In my time with the cartridge, I have come to appreciate the mid to low end of the power spectrum and thus have made extensive use of Trail Boss powder and bullets such as Hornadys .358 158gr SWC. IF YOU ARE USING SWAGED 158GR BULLETS 3.1 WILL WORK, IF USING HARD CAST 3.3 IS NEEDED. Thanks for the excellent article, Josh! Reduce by 10% to establish a starting charge weight. Battis, if you go to the very bottom of this page you will see Castpics. This post was originally published in 2018. Re: 38 special loads by GrumpyOldMan 11/10/2013, 4:23 pm IIRC, the NRA Action Pistol power floor is a "factor" of 125, which requires a full 1,000 fps for 125-gr bullets. I have 4 handguns that will shoot .38. I've tried 2.8, 3.0, and 3.2. I have several manuals and some say that this load is a low +p, some say it is not, but it is very accurate. I have 100% confidence in my ability to shoot quickly, accurately, and comfortably with the 32, and I also have confidence that, if needed, my 32 H&R loads from Buffalo Bore and DoubleTap are quite capable of doing the job they are asked to do. would also bridge the gap that the .38 versus .357 have in defensive loads. It also shows that the loads were established using a 6" barrel, so regardless of what any published data shows, the chances of ever finding published data for the exact projectile and barrel length you are using, as well as the exact conditions you will be shooting in, would be nearly impossible. AA#2 is about the same burn rate, but burns much cleaner with less smoke in my guns. Super-Accurate .38 Super Loads - Shooting Times A 158 SWCHP at 850-875 fps from a snub. Winchester only published load for WST in 38 special using lead bullets if you look at the data for the 158 data the start load goes from 3.3 Gr and a max load of 3.7 Gr. .38 special has got to be one of the best calibers there is . She ran two cylinders of 100 grain wad cutters and gave it back to me. May 15, 2012. kc2za said: Hi All, I have been loading .38 spl with 2.7 gr. 5.0 gr unique with berry's 125gr = .38 Special squibs (solved - AR-15 Bullseye Handgun Powders Smokeless pistol powder Billions of rounds have been loaded with Bullseye since it was introduced in 1913. From my Hornady Third Edition manual 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Round Nose #3586 Win 231 3.0 Grains 650 FPS 4.4 Grains 850 FPS Now I will tell you from experience you do NOT want to load Lead Bullets Fast. Best and most realistic article about the .38 special ive found. Thx so it seems like for the long line I need to get some sagged bullets. I've been using the same powders forever. I agree, an airweight has snappy recoil. Currently using Titegroup, but started out with, and loaded many thousands of rounds, with Bullseye. .38 Special +P Load Data - PowderThrough ( customer reviews) $ 10.69 - $ 246.00. Bullseye is the best powder I have found for 38 special. Only if you see more than one load, is it less than maximum. What I learned after 50 years of shooting and reloading 38spl cases some where around 100 thousands rounds. The only reason that my standard (everyday carry) self-defense handgun is not a .38 Special revolver is because I can conceal a semi-auto better (it isnt as fat as the cylinder on a revolver) and my semi-auto has 15 rounds of hard-hitting 180 grain bullets. Normal 38 spell loads for as long as I can remember were never loaded less than 800FPS and I have loaded for revolvers and autos such as my S&W mod 52 that only shoots flush wadcutters. 6.) Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense. )Lastly, the .38 SPL has a very large following and materials can be had readily. I simply took mixed brass and ran em through the Hornady Lock-N-Load AP press with the bare minimum preparation. Anything goes with bullets. In my area, Bullseye is one of the first powders to disappear from shelves, lasting about a heartbeat longer than an econo bulk box of .22 Long Rifle ammunition. I carry 38 /357 every day have used them in real world shootings. Robert Frost. Display as a link instead, That little 9 oz. Reloading The .38 Smith & Wesson - Reload Ammo The reason I love the .38 SPL so much is because its so elastic in function. Even better, is get some 38 S&W brass. WITH THE SWAGED BULLETS REDDING SELLS A PROFILE CRIMP DIE. 9 and others like 2400 that are generally used for magnums). It is easy to load in progressive presses and has commercially available options from virtually all modern manufacturers. Notes: Bbl Length: 5.6; primer: Fed. Taurus model 66 38 special/Bullseye/125 berry's bullets load test Choosing a bullet ES 56 SD 24 PMC Eldorado Starfire +P 125 gr. (Patrick Sweeney photo) September 15, 2021 By Michelle Hamilton, Field Editor. It doesnt appear like there is much of an advantage in using WST with lighter weight bullets. Bullseye is primarily associated with .38 and .45after all, it says right on the bottle: Great for .38 Special and .45 Auto target loads. But it is equally at home in high-velocity auto loads. I have tested both brass and nickel-plated cases using mild loadings and have not yet worn out a case. want me to write up an article about 3d printed .38 special bullets that Ive been working? So I expect recoil would be substantial and not very target-ish. My best group was .9 inch out of a Model 15. I just bought a Lyman mold 160 round nose with a crimp groove. Some people then claimed SAAMI raised the 357 Mag to 45,000. 9.) I buy 158 SWCHP all the time.my main bullet. Speer .38 shot cup, 5 grains of UNIQUE, and (3) #1 Buckshot pellets dates back to the 70s as a Junk Yard Dog load. The cartridge offers a great deal of zest and has thousands of possible load combinations. My J frame S&Ws are all older models, and came with the small grips that are still on some models. The beauty of shooting a .38 is that you can easily practice at the ranges you'd fight at using basically any cheap bullet at minimal expense. I've tried Berry's plated as well as Remington. 9mm 125 grain RN Lead Hard Cast Bullet. Tim: The Lyman 49th edition lists the accuracy loads for their cast bullets. Hornady 115-grain HAPs over 4.4 grains of Bullseye alongside 25-yard timed-fire target. 01-10-2014, 06:49 PM #4. dverna. When you could leave city limits and just about every dirt mound in sight, was a plinking range. ), I very much wanted to start with some tried-and-true Bullseye loads, but it took an epic scavenger hunt across many months to find a canister of the elusive classic. On 7/4/2018 at 11:57 AM, Bill Sahlberg said: There is nothing more accurate at PPC than 148 gr8 HBWC (lead) using 2.8 gr of 231 and a tight crimp with Starline 38 Special brass & a Federal Small pistol primer. Softer alloys of lead are just easier on the machinery. Shoots well in my K-38, 686, and a friend's K-38 at 50 yards in the Ransom rest. Bought my small handed wife a 642. 5.) Reloading Data for .38 Special - Load Data - 1895Gunner. Ive been loading 158gr FMJ with Titegroup and the only problem Ive had is getting the seating depth right after the die locknut slipped. I have two editions of it from different years that have that data. Great gun with the best factory double action trigger Ive ever shot. A .38 Special mystery---what is the reason for this load? I guess its out of production now- I havent seen it (or heard of it) in years. Using bullets from Hornady HP-XTP, Hornady HP-XTP or FP-XTP, Hornady FP-Cowboy, Hornady HBWC, Hornady SWC-HP, SWC or LRN. I keep thinking about trading it for a Model 27 or, maybe, one of the new Pythons for extra weight. I have found that some powder coated bullets which are the same weight as lead, feel quite punchy out of the gun. I make a habit of counting the number of reloads I make by keeping a tally of primer and bullet boxes. While I do have a GP100 in .357 magnum, I dont like shooting .38 special ammo out of it, because cleaning powder residue out of the longer chambers is a real bitch. .38 Special Montana Gold 125 FMJ Power Pistol 6.1 COL 1.417 Tested with a S&W-686-3, 6", ambient temperature about 32 degrees, no wind, target posted at 25 feet (hey, I'm testing handloads for use, not my long range bear killing skills, defensive only). 4.4 gr. I miss those days. 2.7 GR WST IS TOO LIGHT FOR THE 50 YD LINE. It is always higher when powder is next to primer. I don't have a chronograph, but have considered picking one up. My usual 38 Spl load is a 125 gr plated bullet over 5 grains of bullseye. I'm looking for some recipes for 38 special for a 125 grain copper plated (like Berry's) flat point bullet using Unique, Bullseye, or W231. With the powders you listed I would try Bullseye, 231, and Unique in that order. Only need cast when driving up to 1200 fps or so. Agree Problem with the J frame S&W is the grips. I, like Spartacus, find the SAAMI recommendations an interesting spec for comparative purposes. PDF Cast Bullets in the .38 Special - Castpics Bullseye and NRA Distinguished Revolver I think the 158 lrn is more accurate then the swc but that's just me. The powder charges used for .38 are forgiving. 358430 (195 grain) round nose bullet that was used in the old 200 grain police loads as there is always interest in these. Try. Content . 300 Blackout Fine-Tuning: Finding the Right Barrel Length for Your Rifle. Loading the .38 Spl. & .357 Mag. - An Official Journal Of The NRA Go figure. And if youre doing that [shooting 158 grain bullets at 1200 fps muzzle velocity] with a snub.let me know I wanna watch you shoot em. I will always love the 38 SPL (never cared much for 357 Mag), but that 3 seven shot Charter with both 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Mag is truly the bees knees. These bullets shot to point of aim in modern S&W snubbies, but the older M10-5 was regulated with 158 grain bullets and 125's shoot low. I never really set my sights, in a manner of speaking, on the .38 cartridge like I did other rounds. In terms of the best stopping power for .38 Special, I personally like 150 grain full wadcutters or 158 grain hollowpoint semi-wadcutters. swatmag.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. Forget about it. This. The .38 with careful selection of components can be the cats as* for almost any shooter. You are being redirected - Shooters' Forum You need a .357 Magnum revolver if you want to try a 9MM cylinder. I have the shrouded hammer version, the 638, and have been wary of training much with it because of its aluminum frame. If you're looking for a real light load that's easy to shoot, I'd just use WW's data for the W231 with a 125 gr. Powder Bul Weight C.O.L. Everyone here who has tried plated bullets including myself, have had disappointing results in accuracy. I recently picked up a 396 Nightguard and am a convert to the 44 Special! WAP, WMR, WSF, WSL, 760, 748, 231 and 540 are products of Winchester, Components Div. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. I use CCI Snake shot for two and Buffalo Bore short Barrel 130 gr. When I teach other people the basics of reloading, I teach them on the .38 SPL. Classics go well together: circa 1909 S&W .38 Special and traditional 148-grain wadcutter load of 2.7 grains of Bullseye. I find the Pachmayr Compac grips on my 640 reduce the slap of full-boat .357 to less than that on my 3 M65 (w/ wood Altamont grips) or my 4 686 (Pachmayr Gripper Professional grips.) The load you use will be up to your gun. Good point Len. These loads are for my wife's revolver. I like Bullseye in the 38 Special, and it was a consistent performer with the 125 grain bullets. I checked out Alliant's website-no data for flat point with the powders I have, but data for Gold Dot HPs for Bullseye and Unique. The Speer #8 lists a max of 7.5 grs Unique with a 125 gr Jacketed SP This would be for plinking for my wife's ~3" Rossi, so something light and fun to shoot would be great.All three of those powders have published load data for that weight bullet in .38 Special.All three of those powders have published load data for that weight bullet in .38 . Enter to win an FN FAL Rifle. In several of the guns, the old standby couldnt quite duplicate the level of precision they exhibit with current production wadcutters from Black Hills or Winchester, but in each case, the load shot close to or right on the sights and nearly held the X ring. Good job on you! 1.455 in. was a breeze. Main issue is that the .44 spl. The .327 Fed Mag is IT! I went from 2.7to 4.0 gr and nothing to speak of. I can not be held responsible for. I have not loaded plated bullets in quite some time, since they are not useful for my accuracy needs. The cases are large enough that they can be easily manipulated by inexperienced hands and yet small enough to not require much force in the sizing stage. Clays, Universal, HP38, HS6 and H4895 are products of Hodgdon Powders. The 357 magnum about 45,000 psi and the std 38 special about 17,000 psi. If I do carry a revolver its my 642 with a laser grip in my right front pocket or my SW model 69 5 shot 44 mag. I wish Id had a commercial version of this load in my ammo allocation when we were tasked with getting classes of students up to special operations standards with the issue custom 1911s. Like almost all pistol cartridges called ".38" the .38 Special actually takes .357" diameter bullets. hebyta 38 special is a great cartridge. Power Pistol won't work for me. Most DNR (Do Not Reduce) loads are well over 900-fps. For any loads over 900-1,000 FPS, I suggest using a jacketed bullet. BrianEnos.com Between that, some other info on other forums, Winchester's data for a lead flat point, and numbers from loaddata.com, I think I have some to start with. The key to those rounds, in spite of their paltry muzzle velocity of something like 825 feet per second out of a snubbie, is their diameter and mass: they will make significant diameter holes and penetrate respectably in attackers. I had ammo for some friends as low as 600 fps. To many shooters, .45 ACP means 230-grain hardball at 830 fps. The covered blackstrap and extended length Compac design I reckon are major factors in reducing perceived recoil. You can always back off to the .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Mag if you choose to. Many people tend to poo-poo .38 Special (standard pressure) for self-defense as being somehow underpowered. Yes, I had no issues with the 38 SPL, but the 32 is just more FUN- especially when I get seven shots of it in a revolver the size of J frame! My hand ached for a week. Thanks for your help. But I think I was still loading the cases from that first box when I quit loading 18 years later! That for just a nice shooting load one cant beat 148gr wad-cutter for pure fun. The cowboy loads would be good choices as listed, since these ARE reduced loads for that sport, where usually just hitting a metal plate to make a sound is all that is required of the round. https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2221-distinguished-revolver-loads-that-don-t-suck?highlight=distinguished+++%2Bloads, Load question on Penn Bullets for Distinguished load. When I finally nabbed my own canisters of Bullseye, the first load I spun up was 2.7 grains under Hornadys hollow-base wadcutters. This is my plink load for the kids. The cold header swages a bullet in one or two strokes. The manufacturing process of swaged bullets requires relatively soft lead for two reasons. I dont miss lubing casescarbide is king! Replaced w/ Altamont laminated wood, and later w/ open- back Pachmayrs- the less-pronounced finger grooves fit me better. This pistol uses the .38 Special with a Remington wadcutter bullet seated flush with the case mouth. 2, No. Also, too light loads don't allow the bullet to seal the gases causing problems. I prefer the slower burning Unique, and I also use it for .357 magnum, just more of it. I just dont like practicing with it. Seems like everyone is all orgasmic about bigger, faster, more of, etc. 2) Ammo that would work in the Air Force's Air Crewman Colt's and Smith and Wesson revolvers that had weak alloy cylinders. 7, No. My Hornady book says for 158 gr L-SWC, Unique powder, CCI magnum primer the minimum listed (not sure if that's absolute minimum) is 4.3 and maximum is 4.7. 38 special loads - Bullseye Forum As I said I am not familiar with your frame and suspect it is one of the latest models out by Smith. i had the same issues you did when i was trying to load for my DR revolver 14-3. to light of power had a soft recoil but ungodly bad accuracy. .38 Special: What Ive Learned After 20,000 Rounds, Stacey Abrams Whopper: No one believes in eroding the Second Amendment, Scottsdale Home Owner Uses Shotgun to Stop Naked Home Invader Caught in His Childs Room [VIDEO], Liberty Ammunitions Innovative Personal Defense Rounds are Lighter, Go Faster, and Hit Harder. hard cast LSWC's as a target load. I went to the grocery store to buy a loath of bread.. Also some WSF. My guess would be almost identical, straight wall, not high pressure, definitely. Case life is excellent, especially for mild loads. 38 spl.s. Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above). Case life is excellent, especially for mild loads. I was looking through the Lyman 49th edition reloading manual and see the bullets you are talking about. A bullet with a copper gas check or copper plating is best for INDOOR ranges to keep lead vapors out of the air. My experience has always been with bullseye powder. However recoil will be the limiting factor especially for the short line. I get 1000 fps with this load. It is a very versatile and useful round. I use 3.2 gr Bullseye to push a 125 gr cast along at 750 - 775 fps in the 38 SPL from 5 and 6" barreled revolvers. I reload a 3 CA Bulldog in .44 with 200 gr wadcutters, to recreate the Man Stopper loads of long ago. You are spot on about Trail Boss, that stuff is magical with cast reloads. Swaged bullets do not have the hardness of poured (cast) lead. Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide in 158 weight berry's bullet 3.8 grains of bullseye with a taper crimp. You will find plenty of Red Dot loads there. And.those Hornady 158 HPs are easy to reload but I have never had one open up in a varmint of any sort. Required fields are marked *. Bullets are .357 for jacketed and .358 for lead in diameter. Notes: primer: CCI 500; case: Speer; NOTE: All loads are maximum. Generally, I'm looking for a load that produces accuracy from approx. A significant difference in speeds is usually noted. Have you all found different seat depths to work better than what's in the manual? I too must be older than my years (35), as I love reloading .38SPL and have a S&W 442, S&W 36, and my most recent acquisition is a S&W 19-5 that is an absolute joy to shoot. Beginners to shooting can use a full size revolver or their carry gun with light to mild loads to become confident and familiar with marksmanship and trigger control. I don't know what bullets you have, but Berry's recommends per their website to use hard cast data for their plated bullets. Ive done the majority of shooting in .38 Special in my Smith & Wesson 642. Different colors can be used to identify different loads and since bottom of each bullet is also powder coated, there is less lead dispersed in the air at the shooting range. Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue. Be careful !!!! LOL. Start conservative if you wish. The majority of my shooting with .38 has taken place with soft lead bullets. 32 H&R Mag 21,000 In fact, in the past I specifically sought out revolvers chambered in 38 SPL only, knowing I would never be putting a 357 Mag in it (I carried a 4 GP100 chambered in 38 SPL as a duty sidearm in the early 90s). Many of these men had no real experience with the handgun, and we had but a few weeks to get them up to very high standards that most shooters will never reach. Unlike many other guns Ive owned and carried, this little snubby really cant be modified much beyond factory configuration. You can't rely on this because not all variables for YOUR cases and chamber and loading length, etc. I bet you can find some nice shooting loads with Bullseye. Give me a .38 Special Recipe Please | Ruger Forum (Note H110 & W296 are the same as of 2008 as is HP-38 & W231), (IMR 4227 is same as H-4227 if made in Australia), * Blackhorn 209 is a black powder substitute with smokeless like qualities. Also internet references 2009, Copyright. Do you folks think a start at 3.0 gr and work up from there with a 125 gr bullet would be a safe load. Shooter's Reference Load Data for .38 Special The 38 Special, practically snubnose 38 Specials, seem to do their best work with bullets right around the 155-160 grain range. The 36s greater weight makes it much easier to shoot than the 638. Javascript is required. Since it hit the market 103 years ago, it has been a staple for most handloaders and the backbone of most accuracy loads in the popular calibers. The proof pressure MAP specified by SAAMI is 29,500 psi for both rounds. Reloading for it came next and it has since become my favorite pistol cartridge. Me too! Nice thing about reloading is that loads can be tailored for the gun that you are shooting. The Speers do occasionally and the Magnus a little more. Don't know of any bullets like that. So . Testing out some bullseye with 125 berry's bullets.. But I would only be caught dead with one in my hands if I had to use one for self defense (pun intended). I can get away with using it as cast w/ alox. Interestingly, I had pistols that would shoot one well and the other impressively, but have not yet had one pistol do magic with both. Fast burning and consistent Economical and accurate Principal Purpose: Handgun loads Remarks: America's best known pistol powder. What overal length of the cartridge? Just look for a lead remover tool with bronze screens. This load is in the general velocity bracket with most generic or bulk box 115-grain loads and zings over my chronograph at 1,125 to 1,140 fps from a Glock 17, depending on bullet style. more weight than the similar size CA .44 Bulldog, were available, a lot more people would also like the .44 spl. One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck.. Your email address will not be published. If you have the means, I highly recommend you trying one out. 9mm 125 gr RN Lead Cast Bullets for Reloading - Stateline Bullets 2.7 gr. YMMV. Red Dot 38 Special - Gunloads.com But you guys need to practice more. At one time or another, I also owned and shot a M38 Bodyguard (nka the 638), a M37 Chiefs Special (now the 637), a M60 (which is a tad heavier but no more user-friendly), and a couple of others. Most of these are at the upper end. Nitpicking is its own reward., I believe the correct spelling is loathe . My more serious RN is the 358311 that drops @150 gr. Hi. 4.2 gr. I estimate that the price for each of the three loads runs between $7 and $8 per box of 50. One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck. 2.9 of Clays is soft enough and dead accurate at 50yds. This gun now wears factory synthetic grips which are decent but could use more girth behind the trigger guard. A light target load, which tends to be very accurate, is about 3.1 grains, with a 158 grain bullet. I am way shy of 70 years old and I love me some .38 Special. That's usually +P power level in .38 Special. Hmm. NULLI SECUNDUS. Recoil was so nasty that I quit after five shots and saved the rest of the box for my 6 Model 19 .357. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion. Alliant Powder - Bullseye Minnesota. The swaged bullets are soft enough that they expand even at mild velocities where a JHP or hard cast cant. In a 1909 vintage Smith & Wesson target .38, the 2.7-grain load cut a nearly one-inch cluster, showing that classics go well together. WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets - Bullseye Forum Reducing consumables (and therefore cost) that much more is definitely appealing to me. The instructors worked magic in many cases, but having a load like this to gradually work shooters onto full-strength loads would have been a great tool. Its like a pellet gun with a little noise and smoke if using black powder. You cannot paste images directly. Always make sure your lead bullets have been sized and lubricated. Each of the classic loads is also economical. .38 Special Chronograph Test | Perfect Union Canister Sizes: View All Bullseye Recipes Load it using wadcutter specs, and seat the bullet flush, like a wadcutter. As example, 5.8 6.0 grains UNIQUE with a 125 grain HP in a snub nose .357 revolver. The least is usually supplied as a large cylindrical billet weighing several hundred pounds. I load it almost exclusively though with either a powder coated or plated 125 grn bullet. Good shootin! Installed some wood boot grips, modified them with grooves at the bottom of each side panel, similar to those on Pach. Shot many thousands of my bullseye powder reloads with it. I have 125 grain jacketed bullets, Bullseye powder and CCI 500 primers. Super cheap and easy to make and would likely be a very effective defense ammo against wildlife that might be a threat to me as the two balls will spread an inch or two from each other at close range. Maybe once a year I would reset everything to load up a few hundred .38 Spl for the wifes Detective Special, then right back to .357. Good thing I didn't go with the original powder charge I intended to use.